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clownpunchers: Good comments, thanks. I’m still toying with the idea but do realistically need to assess committments if I do it, so as not to put out something I can’t maintain.
Reb: Yes, you’re right, but I meant about size of trail and hides, really. Not as an actual charity ethos. I couldn’t even mention the name of a charity I’m associated with when placing a cache on their property with their permission!
Aye, I will do some more of yours!
Hides; the charity letterboxers manage okay. Yep, some areas are tussock hell, but pick the area and there are almost too many places to hide. Foggintor School and out to the quarries, Nosworthy Bridge up to Black Tor and back, Chat Tor are just a few 3-4 mile loops that I’ve done as charity walks.
You sound miffed… This was never a personal thing, but you seem to think that it is, Dave. Whether I had done all your series or not, I would still be asking this question – if not here, elsewhere. This isn’t about you or your caches, only your opinion and that of others.
You and I have spoken several times about what appeals to us both. We have different needs, but also a lot of common ground. I think I understand what you enjoy about caching, but you seem unclear about why I do it – and I’d hoped I was being clear! Let’s try again: A nice interesting walk in the country, easy to find caches with good clues, and yes, plenty of them to motivate me to get there in the first place. And I tend to set trails as I would like to do them. Just as you do for your trails.
About 1/3 of Ring is open moorland, as about 1/5th of South Brent’s is. Ring of Cox is the only circular one I can recall that’s entirely moorland. (I know Suzy tried to set one earlier this year, but fell within the no-go zone of Spitchwick and had to remove them again. 🙁 ) I’m struggling to find other examples because of the very reason I’m raising this question – they ain’t there!
Why?!
Answer so far seems to be; “No particular reason” and that the long distance moor walkers aren’t too fussed about circular series.
Dave, why would any part of my question suggest I had exhausted all the possibilities?
Happy to answer your questions, though!
Lych Way – difficult to get transport. It’s in my sights and I want to do it one day, but as a solo walker such things are sometimes logistically difficult. Circular walks are definitely more my thing, although I did do the Templer Way last month. (Solo through choice, mostly. Harder to appreciate the landscape when you’ve got to make smalltalk)
WotWS – again, intend to one day, but forays into the deep moor are few and far for me. I don’t get the free time I once did and typically have responsibilities to get back for.
Leap Day – did that within a couple of weeks, IIRC, although not the final as it was too difficult to find.
However, for the casual map-browsers, your series have placements so far apart they’re hard to spot as a series as they don’t form an obvious loop on the map. You’ve explained that’s your taste, and absolutely don’t have a problem with that, but it’s much harder to see that there is a series.
And to answer my own question: Yes, I like walking on the open moor, and I don’t find geocaching whilst doing so detracts from it. Indeed, it gives me form and targets. Without, I’ll sometimes not go as far or get such a sense of achievement. If there were more walks with 0.1 or 0.2m placements in a loop I would do them, and I think others would too, and I’m also thinking as a CO – although I may need to consider time vs maint with 50 odd out already. I’m thinking of walks 2-10 mile, circular. Ring of Laughter is one such and it’s had 292 visitors. Not bad going.
It’s not fashionable to say you go geocaching for the numbers, but that is a part of it for me and many others. And it’s a driver that’s taken me to some very interesting pieces of countryside.
My purpose in asking this question was to guage others’ opinions and discuss it, because Dartmoor is surrounded by circular trails yet there are very few on the moor itself, and I wanted to know if there was some particular reason. Sorry it confused you.
Why create any trail? 🙂 You could join the dots when caching anywhere, and yes, sometimes that’s fun.
Challacombe has a nice circular walk, which is sometimes used for events, and some excellent history with Birch tor and Golden Dagger mines. Could even have a bonus cache sited near to Plymouth museum where the dagger was last seen before it was bombed.
But as the letterbox charity walks show, circular walks can be done anywhere on the open moor.
Ah, it’s bbpress – normally a good choice. I’ve installed it on one of my sites to test, and some settings you may want to try: Settings, Forums.
The only thing in its settings that might be worth changing is to toggle Fancy editor
If not, try disabling other plugins one at a time to see if they fix it. Especially any editing plugins you may have.
Then change to a different theme.
It can take a fair bit of time and faff to sort, unfortunately. 🙁
Without knowing the plugins used for the forum it’s a bit hard to say – but from this side it looks like it’s conflicting with the theme, or there may be a width setting somewhere in the forum plugin’s settings?
Really hard to guess though. 🙁
As somebody who maintains a small handful of wordpress sites, I can sympathise… Not seen this particular problem, but plugins often do cause unexpected behavior. :/
I use openstreetmap.org maps on my Garmin for walking. (I do carry an OS too, but only for emergencies).
Sometimes OSM has far more accurate pathing (alhough by no means always), and if not, you can add paths yourself. When you edit with OSM, the satellite info is overlaid so it’s easy to draw paths accurately, and you can also import tracks from your gps and have them overlaid too.
Talkie Toaster does mapsets drawn from OSM that load onto Garmins and many other makes of gps, as well as pc software like Basecamp.
When I walk somewhere that has poor OSM mapping, I enjoy spending an hour or so improving it for others that come after. It’s quite an addictive sub-hobby to be done in a nice and warm seat with a cup of tea, once the hard walking’s done. And by doing so, I re-live the journey.
And yes, all this is free. Totally. If it sounds interesting, take a look and get involved.
(In defence of OS, I love them and find reading them inspiring. Also paths “drift” over the years, sometimes hugely, which may explain inaccuracies on old maps, and I don’t think OS update footpaths so often)
Fair point, and I’m guilty of it too – although somewhere to moan in a non-specific way isn’t always a bad thing. People are free to respond and a discussion is formed. Opinions are sometimes changed and a point that could be bugging someone for months is, by the process of sharing it, viewed from anothers’ eyes and perspective gained. Your own post here is one example of this, Dave’s post (and probably my response) that prompted it, another. I believe every community should have an opportunity to discuss its problems (without getting too personal, of course!)
It was good of DD to create this site and run it, but the majority of content comes from him. I tried to help out with the walks series, but nobody else wrote in it and I do admit I lost heart and interest after a few.
Dave is a chap who’ll throw the odd conversational hand grenade up in the air to see who catches it, and to be honest if he didn’t this forum would have no content. Every lull is sparked off again by him, but we kinda need more to be self sustaining.
The Facebook groups have a lot more activity (30 odd messages in the devon and cornwall groups tonight), and they’re fine for up to the minute and short discussions, but are lousy for building a body of work and a resource like this has already become.
Geocaching in the southwest is an overwhelmingly positive thing. We have good quality caches, a wide variety and a beautiful place to do it.
You see a few things like that, and I think you have to relax your view of things – people play the game in different ways, and that includes cheating for some on occasion. A couple of examples of the past few months that surprised me;
In your example, logging as a found when you haven’t signed the log (or at least found the container) is clearly not a find by any definition. Mistakes happen, but I recently informed a well known local cacher that it was likely their yellow smiley in a very long list of DNF’s for what was obviously a missing cache was probably a mistake, their reply was “I didn’t keep tally during that walk” but they left it there along with several others that were unlikely finds. Nothing I can do, other than lose a bit of respect for them as I’d expected them to change it.
Another which surprised me was a large group that couldn’t find a cache and persuaded themselves it was missing, then replacing it with a new cache. They were all honest about reporting it as such, some in that group claimed that as a find, some as a DNF – but when the original was found by the next cacher (along with the replacement), it was met with disbelief and the attitude of “If the CO disagrees, they can delete my log” rather than admit they failed to find it.
I’ve been accused of expecting too much of people before, maybe this is another example and I shouldn’t care?
Sadly there’s been a few of these nonsense events created by the same person using an anonymous account.
They create a normal event to get past the reviewer, then change all the details. If it wasn’t for that I’d think it was a bit of fun and I actually signed up to “not go to” one of them before I knew what was going on. 🙁
But anyway, I’m not not going to this one either… 🙂
Well done!
I never go out with the intention of clearing up litter, I just seem to come back with pockets a lot more full than I go out with…
Thanks for the info, interesting.
There has been some negatives towards a short family trail elsewhere in the uk where you had to pay to get into a park area to complete it.
That said, Centreparcs are advertising a geocaching activity at several of their places where you hire a gps and follow their trail. I don’t know the details, but I understand it’s nothing to do with gc.com and doesn’t list the caches there.
We all know you can’t advertise names, even charities, in descriptions, titles etc – but you can put caches where paid parking is the only option thus making them non-free to drivers at least.
Anyway – only way to be sure is to ask groundspeak!
Hobo – the age of a cache is a strong reason to adopt or wish for an archived cache to be enabled. Apart from that I can’t see any specific reason that couldn’t be equally well done by putting a new one in the same spot, and benefits cachers by giving them all a new opportunity.
Dave – I am quite happy to continue breaking the law and continue to remove rubbish or geo-litter for the greater good and take my chances. (As I did on Saturday, with the extra tupperware lid one of your caches had gained that was serving no purpose!)
Technically speaking, all rubbish – geo or otherwise – is owned by somebody, but a little common sense must come into play or the beautiful spaces we love and cherish would not stay so for long. But I do understand groundspeak taking that line when the original intention by the CO was probably not to create litter.
It’s not crazy, gc.com cannot do it. The cache is the legal property of the owner and unless they were to include the ability to waive ownership rights in the T&C’s, they cannot give another person the rights to it.
What’s worth saving is obviously a hugely subjective view, and happily one that an individual cacher can take for themselves when asked to adopt, or even perform running maint on someone else’s cache.
Some consideration for longevity might skew such a decision, an otherwise nondescript cache that is 7 or more years old I would consider taking on if it was convenient, just to keep a few oldies around – helps those who are trying to complete various other challenges or grids based on age.
But I’m rarely glad to see any cache go, especially as a forced archiving by a reviewer, since the story behind that is usually that the CO has lost the will to maintain the cache, usually having given up geocaching entirely.
With my CO hat on I agree. Several cachers have replaced damp logs on mine and I’ve always been grateful (but perhaps less so to the previous cachers who left lids off, or signed with wet hands, etc…)
As a cacher – there’s a dilemma. Earlier on I didn’t want to, and the first time I did (the brook by Holwell) I replaced the container too, dried and scanned in the logsheets and emailed them to the CO. I got no response or thanks and that disappointed me. I have no doubt that CO has left geocaching for good so in a way I’ve only delayed the inevitable.
And that’s something I see repeated quite often – the CO has vanished and caches are maintained by the cachers themselves. At what point does a cache stop being owned and maintained and is just listed litter?
I continue to replace logs and the odd container, but not every time. I mostly do it for owners I know are active to save them a trip, as I would like done for mine – but if it’s an unknown name, or a cache placed by somebody with a low find count (sorry, but that range is responsible for most abandoned caches) I think I may be more inclined to file a NM and if no response, follow up with a Needs Archived to free the spot for another cache that stands a chance of being cared for.
Thanks Phil. Well timed as I completed Parramble yesterday – 3 days’ worth, plus another two series near to it (Hunters’ Hike is recommended, cracking views on the coastpath, but a little scary for vertigo sufferers like myself!)
Now having to look further east and west for the big loops, only a few left in Devon. CCC near Salisbury next, perhaps…
The Knights View 1,2 and 4 adopted by myself.
Sorry, Mary Tavy a little too far for my to take as well.
Hope to sort out those three in the next week.
Firstly, well done to Jerry for asking for help. Understand totally the reason – I wouldn’t be happy driving two or three hours each way to replace a soggy log either!
It would be better if somebody came forward to adopt what remains of the full set.
If nobody does (and I’ll mention on facebook too) I would offer to take those along the main road east of Two Bridges only. Those west of there will be too far away to commit to, sorry.
So yeah, better if somebody can take them all.
Oh, and DD – if I’m comparing. As I’ve said a few times in here, geocaching for me is mostly about the walk. Exploring new areas. These trails give a structured walk with some numbers thrown in. They push most of my buttons for caching and why I’ve spent an awful lot of time on the M5 and North Devon Link this summer as most of the long ones seem to be in North Devon.
Parramble has superb views; crosses part of the open moor of Exmoor and has more footpath than road. Parking can be an issue but you’ll find somewhere. My favourite views were at the top end down across the coast towards Valley of the Rocks.
WDW – Huge sense of achievement on completing without a DNF. Much more roadwork, two untidy farms, wetter underfoot generally. Some great views, along the north side, and the wind turbines do overpower one – the noise on even a slightly windy day was enough for me to not be able to hear traffic in the lanes. I was fairly ambivalent about them, but that walk polarised my view of the things – although from the logs, others walk away loving them!
On both – that underlying smell of cow muck that N Devon seems to specialise in…
GH – “only twenty miles”… 12 is about my comfort level, after that my legs go a little jellyish… (17 and a half stone, y’see) I’m also rubbish about stopping often enough, usually going 3-4 hours without a break, and then only a quarter hour or so. I average about 2mph that way, including finding and logging, but obviously dependant on terrain.
I too hate TFTC (or at least, only use them to avoid saying something bad!), and if I sit down (with a cup of hot chocolate) immediately after the walk, I can re-live even these longer trails quite clearly. I occasionally put a brief comment on my gpsr – such as “Fave” to remind myself to mark one as such, or “Bull too close”, “Untidy farm” to remind myself of something noteworthy along the way.
Usually after I’ve logged I crash out for a couple of hours in the afternoon…
Dave – I would like to see these trails on ‘my’ moor, very much.
WDW is mostly film pots and small clip-tops, not huge variety. Parramble has a huge variety of containers, unusual in anything other than a short trail. All of kevham1’s caches are well maintained, with missings being tended to within a short period, and I found all of WDW and all but one of two loops of Parramble (the DNF – we were the first to log, and it was replaced a week later)
In every case the clue is clear, useful, and the coords are bang on.
If you wanted to sample one, I’d say do a few of Parramble first, see how it goes.
Didn’t do a write up as not on Dartmoor…
Yes, GH – I saw the logs of the guy who did 150. Started at dawn, still going at night. 5 or 6 hours hard walking is enough for me!
Muddypuddles has already transferred two of that series to me Dave, but alas the rest are too far for me to commit to upkeep so great if you can help with the others.
Is the huge (and recent) Dartmoor Forest also going – and can anyone keep that alive?
Was actually quite emotional last night when I saw Dewer Ramble archived, that was one of my all time favourite walks – but on the facebook group, Station Master has already indicated he’ll lay another along the route if nobody else does in a while, which means I can walk it again 🙂
Sad to see your stuff go, MP – you’ve done huge work for geocaching in the SW and whatever happens I hope you find your way back again some time.
muddypuddles – the above site has a system called Points (caches times D/T) which seems close to what you’re describing.
Miss – Karma is the measure that takes your hides into account.
I’ve just found this site which is very quick and easy to use (don’t be scared by the gc login, you don’t need to enter username and password).
http://project-gc.com/TopLists/TopKarma
My karma is 2.75 – 808 finds, 44 hides resulting in 2223 logs and 112 favourite points by visitors.
Hobo and Miss’s is 2.4, Dartmoor Dave’s 2.58, Muddypuddles 2.87, Station Master is 1.47 and The Forgetful Elephants only 1! (Which I don’t understand at all, they’re probably my favourite hiders, so maybe this isn’t a great guide either?)
Lots of other top lists on there. Most caches in a day – 1097 (A fake) and several over 500. Really all about the numbers…
They do? I can’t see reference to geocaching in either, only letterboxing?
In any case, it would be hard to argue any activity that puts people next to wildlife isn’t going to disturb them in some way.
Incidentally, I used the Ring Ouzel as an arguement in a written objection to the Teignbridge development plan extending Buckland Estate into green fields along the Teign Estuary – on land specifically known to be a nesting ground to them. Somewhat more disturbing to a rare breed to have houses built on them, at least on Dartmoor this risk is far less!
Another example to support your view; Lower and Middle Staple Tors. Both Hybrid boxes. GCT4CE
Both had geocaches when I walked around there a couple of months ago. I tried both, one was obviously missing (clear clue), one I couldn’t find but could have been there. The owner admitted they weren’t able to do maint so archived the one that was definitely missing. End of a 6 year old cache 🙁 (They may be persuaded to unarchive if anyone wants to adopt it, sadly it’s the wrong side of the moor for me)
In both cases, there have been a lot of DNF *AND* Found logs. The latter, almost certainly from people finding nearby letterboxes and not realising. Given how many rock solid finds there were earlier, I suspect it has gone but without the CO available to verify what is and what isn’t their cache – the only way to distinguish a Hybrid Geocache from a bog standard letterbox is some form of identification; such as the stash card you suggested.
That said, I put out the Hennock series without them. I did mean to, and actually designed a special one, but I had a free day to lay it before I went back to work where the laminator was and put them out without. I’ll include them when I do a maint-circuit though. Most have “Geocache – Harmless” tz-labelled on the outside as per the guidelines though.
No, the prisoners don’t work in the quarries – most of the dartmoor quarries closed from 1880 through to 1940s, Foggintor (I think) around 1910. I’m not aware of any working quarries or mines on dartmoor now, apart from the clay workings on the west side (mostly outside but some inside) and the mothballed Meldon, but go back 150 years and it was heaving.
Might be best to avoid some of the mires and the inner areas well away from the roads, but there’s still lots to do. Weather can change quickly, and forecasts are never reliable on the moor. Always wear good boots and wear proper clothes. There, nanny stuff out the way. 🙂
Hot spot areas: Burrator Resorvoir, some great caches there, but sometimes very muggly.
West of Princetown, Foggintor, Swelltor, Kings Tor quarries and the old railway bed. Good history, stunning views, not too strenuous if you park at Princetown and follow the railway down. One of my favourite walks, and many caches.
West side of the moor; Burrator/Yelverton area have some very high quality caches, and don’t go past a Pipe Dream, Expect the Unexpected or a Joy of Caching cache without trying them.
Self publicity: East side, an hour or so to do my walk around Great Plantation by Bovey Tracey is an easy and level walk if you’re looking for something not too challenging. Not strictly in Dartmoor, that bit. I’ve just done a new walk by Hennock that’ll take a bit longer and has lots of steep bits, and includes some mining history and is just inside Dartmoor.
If you’re poking around moors you’ll also find a letterbox or too, so take an inkpad and some blank postcards if you want to do those.
If puzzles are your thing, Yelverton has a very high density by Hobo and Miss. Also a few Earthcaches around.
And welcome to what I think is the best place in the world 🙂
How far off the road are you willing to go? Anything in particular you enjoy about caching, any other interests that ring your bells like archaelogy, geology, historical areas, water etc?
I know people are getting upset over this, but for some reason I now have a mental image of Basil Fawlty attacking his car with a branch…
Funny you should say that, I spent some time last weekend “Ignoring” many puzzle caches that are too hard for me to solve, so they don’t taunt me on the maps…
What’s the difference between that and walking alongside someone, or as part of a group, to a puzzle cache not having done any of the work in solving it? How can you tell or disprove, other than by a lack of signature in the log?
